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In General => Racing Line => Topic started by: RS_Sprint on September 23, 2003, 08:36:42 PM

Title: something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on September 23, 2003, 08:36:42 PM
Was sent ot me by hesperus, just wanted to share this with everyone.
_____________________________________________

How hard do you drive on a track day? 90%, 100%, 110%?

Have you any idea how hard your car is working too?

How hard do you drive on the road? 60%, 70%?

Track days are incredibly hard on a car. No problem for an Evo but
bear in mind how much you are stressing the car. Everyone
understands that brake pads wear quickly, tyres wear on the edges
faster than normal but what else?

Think of the stresses on wheel bearings, wheel studs, discs,
suspension bushes, oils, steering joints, engine mountings, brake
fluid etc.

If you are serious about track days and do more than two or three a
year then look at the maintenance schedule of your car. You cannot
expect to do this to your car and then poodle off home and go to
work in the morning, checking only the washer fluid level.

You should think about a service and check over after 3 track days
if they are occurring within a 2 month period. If you regularly
visit the track and cannot bring your car to us then please take
some advice from us for free.

The list below is in addition to the usual tyre and brake checks:

* Change the brake fluid twice a year.
* Change oil and filter every 3000 miles.
* Check the air filter every meeting.
* Clean if cleanable every other meeting.
* Change wheel studs and nuts (if applicable) every year without fail.
* Change transmission oils at the end of the year.
* Inspect discs for cracking and overheating after every meeting.
* Get wheel bearings checked at the end of the year.
* Change cam belt every year (depending on road mileage).
* Check suspension alignment twice a year and all bushes (unless an
off meant this was recently done).
* Check all air, water and fuel hoses and clips for stressing and
chaffing every meeting.
* Check engine and transmission mountings at the end of the year.

Regarding actual track day use, try to follow this advice:

* Take a torque wrench to the track day and check wheel torque after
1st session and then at the end of the session before lunchtime. If
one stud only needs tightening at any time then it is stretching.
Replace immediately.

* Do the last lap of each session a lot slower than the others, let the
whole car cool down.

* Do not switch off immediately on returning from the track.

* Do not put the handbrake on immediately on returning from the track.
It can warp the hot rear discs, because of uneven cooling. Try to
keep the car still with the engine running but with no handbrake or
footbrake. When you switch off the engine put it in gear, do not use the
handbrake.

* Check oil and water levels and temperatures (carefully) before each
session.
_____________________________________________

May mga ibang obvious, mga iba hindi mo rin naisip.

See you all on the track soon!
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: M.com on September 23, 2003, 08:51:11 PM
Excellent advice, very valueble information for people who go to track days. thanks RS sprint.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: NSR on September 23, 2003, 09:17:57 PM
good list!!!  ;)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: tachophobia on September 24, 2003, 02:18:46 AM
Nice one, though you forgot something.

* CHECK DRIVER

Track days are hard on the driver too.  ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: El on September 24, 2003, 03:03:18 AM
very informative... sana nabigay ng mas maaga

Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: luwe on September 24, 2003, 03:08:05 AM
ugh!  sapul ako sa iba doon a.  lalo na yung handbrake.  automatic na kasi para sa akin.  sana naman hindi ganun kalaki ang damage kasi naka rear drum ako.

yung mahabang listahan pwede naman sa suking carshop pagawa diba?  o sa casa ko pa ba dalhin
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: R-A-Y on September 24, 2003, 06:34:10 AM
Very helpful points! Sayang tapos na yung trackday haha. :D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: tintop on October 02, 2003, 07:15:58 PM
I always do a cool down lap prior to coming into the pits instead of storming in after a hot lap..it gets everything back to normal operating temps for the car and driver.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on October 03, 2003, 06:30:20 PM
I guess if you really are serious about track-driving in general, then better modify your car to help make it last the distance.

Some things to look into would be the hoses. If you can switch to silicon hoses, that would be good, along with your fluids (engine and gear oil, brake fluid, coolant etc.), use the best suited for your car that you can afford.

And an oil cooler too. :)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: go-samurai on October 06, 2003, 08:11:51 PM
where do u install the oil cooler? is it for the power steering? or for the gear oil?
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on October 07, 2003, 03:23:42 PM
For the engine oil. :) Although you can put one for both the power steering and the gear oil too.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: fatbastard on October 08, 2003, 06:48:08 AM
is there such a problem as too big an oil cooler? philipine setting ha, humidity n weather.  ;)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on October 08, 2003, 10:30:55 AM
Cha,

overcooling perhaps ::)

bka mas matagal umabot sa normal operating temp ang engine during morning startups.

so mas matagal kang nka taas ang rpm during idle
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on October 08, 2003, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: enigmazutapia on October 08, 2003, 10:30:55 AM

Cha,

overcooling perhaps ::)

lubricating oils have an optimum temp of 250-275*F. yes there is a thing as overcooling but less of a problem compared to the other end of the spectrum.

after the cooldown lap, break out the pyrometer and see how your tires are doing and adjust tire pressures as needed.
power steering fluid temp is often neglected and ive seen its effects. ive seen a guy roast his rack after 1 intense day at the track. no pun intended on the "roast" and the "rack"....lol
stay hydrated at all times....cant overemphasize having enough fluids in your system...drivers i mean.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: nukee on October 23, 2003, 11:52:35 AM
ganon?

kailangan din ba ng oilcooler para sa n/a cars?

where to buy?

What does silicon hoses do that normal hoses cannot do?
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on October 23, 2003, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: nukee on October 23, 2003, 11:52:35 AM
ganon?
kailangan din ba ng oilcooler para sa n/a cars?
where to buy?
What does silicon hoses do that normal hoses cannot do?

why yes, an oil cooler is necessary if you plan on running your car in high revs over a long period of time, say, in a road course of 20 minute lap sessions where you go all out. another scenario is if you idle the car over a long period of time...
as a matter of fact, when i rebuild my rear axle,  im also going to install a thermostatically governed differential cooler.
silicone hoses have the advantages of not being degraded by petroleum based fluids and not prone to collapsing or ballooning compared to rubber hoses. disadvantage is the price.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on October 24, 2003, 04:50:50 PM
Ascalracing,

how to you intend to incorporate a tthemostatic switch for your setup. And does your rear axle..tranny have enough PSI to move the fluid all throughout the cooler and back to the diff/tranny.

M planning a similar thing just curious.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on October 24, 2003, 05:56:46 PM
enigz,

Most oil cooler kits that are add-ons usually have a thermostat. :)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on October 24, 2003, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: enigmazutapia on October 24, 2003, 04:50:50 PM
Ascalracing,

how to you intend to incorporate a tthemostatic switch for your setup. And does your rear axle..tranny have enough PSI to move the fluid all throughout the cooler and back to the diff/tranny.

M planning a similar thing just curious.
differential oil is not pressurized and only bathes or soaks the gears thus the need for external cooling under extreme use. you will need an electric differential/transmission oil pump pictured below:
(http://www.viperspeed.com/new/catalog/catalogImages2002/Diff-Cooler-kit.JPG) [/IMG]
because it is electric, you can employ an electic thermostat switch that will automatically power the pump or shut it off. cutoff temp is usually 180*F.
Most if not all aftermarket external engine oil cooling kits do not come with a thermostat and you must purchase it separate.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on October 24, 2003, 09:22:14 PM
Quote from: RS_Sprint on October 24, 2003, 05:56:46 PM
enigz,

Most oil cooler kits that are add-ons usually have a thermostat. :)
if i simply use a sandwhich plate then route it via braided hoses to a 8x6 cooler...would this do? If I want to have the flexibility of a thermostat how would i go about DIY'in it....Unfortunately a cooler kit is too rich for my blood.


Ascal,

one word......cool man cooooool hehehehe

I see so you would need a pump to circulate the oil in the tranny....in the same essence you can also make a manual switch to turn on and off the pump at your whim ::)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on October 25, 2003, 07:33:37 AM
Quote from: enigmazutapia on October 24, 2003, 09:22:14 PM
Quote from: RS_Sprint on October 24, 2003, 05:56:46 PM
enigz,

Most oil cooler kits that are add-ons usually have a thermostat. :)
if i simply use a sandwhich plate then route it via braided hoses to a 8x6 cooler...would this do? If I want to have the flexibility of a thermostat how would i go about DIY'in it...

youd still need to buy a thermostat and install it in series with the oil cooling system. heres a pic of one installed:
(http://www.instant-g.com/Projects/911Mocal/OTstat3.jpg)
This particular one is inline.
Theres the kind thats integrated in the remote oil filter mount if your setup requires one.

Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: buddyclub on October 29, 2003, 07:39:35 AM
What will happen if you always keep your oil cool or you simply leave the pump on to keep cooling the oil? Would this have any adverse effect? How about the oil cooler? Would this be bad if you maintain the oil temp of the engine below 60 deg celcius?
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on October 30, 2003, 08:15:56 PM
Quote from: buddyclub on October 29, 2003, 07:39:35 AM
What will happen if you always keep your oil cool or you simply leave the pump on to keep cooling the oil? Would this have any adverse effect? How about the oil cooler? Would this be bad if you maintain the oil temp of the engine below 60 deg celcius?

it all has primarily something to do with flow. oil changes flow characteristics that is dependent on temp. if oil is overcooled and is not given a chance to reach its optimum temp, its flow is reduced. result is your engine is not properly lubricated. another thing is cleansing, detergents in the oil also need to be at a certain temp in order to work properly. another one is suspension. this one is directly related to flow. oil needs to keep particles in suspension. otherwise, particles are not removed from components and not filetered out.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on November 01, 2003, 07:00:08 AM
ascalracing,

So if if that is such a big issue as you've mentioned.

Can i just put a DIY flow control (screw gate similar to water piping) system and simply open it during trackdays.

Or is it just advisable to get a smaller cooler mga 4x6. Problem is if I DIY it I don't have any access to a oil thermostat not unless I purchase it import it which defeat the purpose of a cheap oil cooler system.

I was thinking that the water thermostat will just remain closed for a longer period of time since the engine will be relatively cooler thus the need for the water cooling sytem to kick in will be lessened.


Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: dj`wakz on November 01, 2003, 04:30:34 PM
RS_sprint... nice info man :)

nakakatakot un long term outcome pag regular ka sa trackday...  ???
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on November 02, 2003, 03:33:14 AM
Hindi rin, alaga ka lang talaga dapat sa oto and use the best / highest quality lubricants you can buy / afford. With regard to mods, planning on what to spend will also help you get the most bang for the buck on the track, yun nga lang minsan hindi mo ma-appreciate yung mods para sa track sa regular street driving.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on November 02, 2003, 07:02:32 AM
Quote from: enigmazutapia on November 01, 2003, 07:00:08 AM
ascalracing,

So if if that is such a big issue as you've mentioned.

Can i just put a DIY flow control (screw gate similar to water piping) system and simply open it during trackdays.

Or is it just advisable to get a smaller cooler mga 4x6. Problem is if I DIY it I don't have any access to a oil thermostat not unless I purchase it import it which defeat the purpose of a cheap oil cooler system.

I was thinking that the water thermostat will just remain closed for a longer period of time since the engine will be relatively cooler thus the need for the water cooling sytem to kick in will be lessened.

lets hash this out and im getting a little confused so please help me out?
are you installing an engine oil cooler or a power steering cooler or a diff cooler or all of the above??
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on November 02, 2003, 10:13:19 AM
sorry for the confusion.

I plan to install an oil cooler and power steering cooler.


I'm concerned with the oil cooler since It is quite expensive to source a thermostat.

What I plan is just use a small cooler 5X7 then route a bypass valve (similar to water plumbing) that I can manualy shut off and on.

I'l just open the valve when on long High RPM driving and leave it closed during day to day driving.


Or is it better to just route it directly to the cooler since I'll only be putting in a small cooler.

As for the power steering cooler.

I plan to directly route the fluid to a cooler bypassing the original AL tubing used to cool the fluid.  
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on November 02, 2003, 05:51:12 PM
enigz,
please give me a complete list of the materials youre going to  use for the engine oil cooler plus a description of how youre gonna plumb it.
at this point, i would say, the best option is to follow the KISS principle and that is to plumb it without a bypass valve and no thermostat.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on November 03, 2003, 06:29:14 PM
Following your KISS methodology

Sandwhich plate......dunno what brand but I plan on getting it from Kilton Motors.

Then braided hoses i plan to have it crimped with the proper fittings. The shop that MFG industrial hoses for hydraulic stuff used in heavy equipment commited to have that the fittings found in the sandwhich plate is on stock.

As for the cooler I got it off a 4g63T na engine the end fittings are similar to that of found in the fuel rail connection

route the hoses properly then tuck the cooler in front of the condenser ;D

whatcha think
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on November 03, 2003, 07:59:35 PM
sandwich plate sounds good.
keep the oil lines short and with the least amount of bends.
use loctite thread sealer for the threaded fittings at all times to prevent them from coming loose.
its bad practice to use a used cooler because you dont know if it came out of something with a bad engine...metal shavings and all that good stuff and they are virtually impossible to flush. so, if you must use a used one, flush it out real good not only once but many times.
when you mount it in front of the condenser, consider covering it whith some kind of screen to protect it from rocks and road debris.
its nice to hear that DIY is alive and kicking over there. keep it up. My motto has always been, "Built, not Bought!". good luck!
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on November 03, 2003, 11:25:09 PM
thanks for the tips and for putting up with my questions ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: itchywitch on November 21, 2003, 01:39:41 PM
uy si enigz....hindi na matic  ;)



:P
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: ForeHeads on November 26, 2003, 01:18:44 PM
hey enigz!

ayie here...

ok yang project mo ah...


balitaan mo ako kung ok ha?  ;)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: DSM69 on November 29, 2003, 02:53:59 PM
Mga sir's medyo OT po ito pero malapit na po ang Track day, for a newbie ano po ba dapat icheck before such event? what do I need to bring sa venue like tools etc? Kasi first time ko po at I don't want to have a bad experience ika nga baka hindi ko pala alam at out of shape pala yung oto ko! he he he. Salamat po
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: RS_Sprint on December 03, 2003, 03:35:15 AM
Best thing to do is to bring it to a shop that is used to prepping / maintaining track cars. :)

If you wanna do it yourself, here are some basic stuff:

* check for proper fluid levels for engine oil, hydraulic assist fluids, water / coolant etc.

* make sure everything is securely fastened in the engine bay, like all the clamps for the hoses and especially the battery

* check and torque wheel nuts accordingly

* make sure your seat is properly latched onto the chassis and your seatbelt works

* check for leaks underneath the car and also check the brake lines

* bring all your basic hand tools to the track, along with duct tape (very useful), towing rope (you never know when you will need it) and workman's gloves

* bring your spare parts, especially the timing belt and accessories belt; if you don't have a new one, bring your old ones, and extra spark plugs, even the old ones. If something bad happens to these, then you can at least still limp home after :)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: R-A-Y on December 07, 2003, 03:01:23 PM
Cool. I love this thread. Hehehe ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: MaTtoy on December 09, 2003, 10:03:57 AM
Quote from: RS_Sprint on December 03, 2003, 03:35:15 AM
Best thing to do is to bring it to a shop that is used to prepping / maintaining track cars. :)

If you wanna do it yourself, here are some basic stuff:

* check for proper fluid levels for engine oil, hydraulic assist fluids, water / coolant etc.

* make sure everything is securely fastened in the engine bay, like all the clamps for the hoses and especially the battery

* check and torque wheel nuts accordingly

* make sure your seat is properly latched onto the chassis and your seatbelt works

* check for leaks underneath the car and also check the brake lines

* bring all your basic hand tools to the track, along with duct tape (very useful), towing rope (you never know when you will need it) and workman's gloves

* bring your spare parts, especially the timing belt and accessories belt; if you don't have a new one, bring your old ones, and extra spark plugs, even the old ones. If something bad happens to these, then you can at least still limp home after :)
just to add... ;D additional tips for upcoming track days...

- double or even triple check your brake system...change pads, reface your disc brakes, etc. if you have to...one can live with worn out tires but faulty brakes are deadly....

- bring spare fuses

- add to your cellphone's phonebook the #'s of tow truck companies...they will come in handy when you need them...

- don't forget to bring a spare tire or tires

- make sure your car is at full tank before entering the track...more importantly make sure your gas gauge works well...gas stations aren't near to the tracks...

- make sure the important gauges work well...oil, temp, gas and tach...

- duct tape your headlights...in case rocks hit them...they won't break all over the track as much...

Also, some track day and RWYB organizers here in the country aren't really strict with helmets....but I really think they are necessary...I personally witnessed 2 civics during the last Honda RWYB in subic a couple weeks back reck their cars...the SIR's roof was only about an inch from the driver's head when it toppled over...it wasn't a pretty sight but just imagine if he didn't have a helmet...so if you value your head...use a helmet... ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: z3r0cfm on December 09, 2003, 11:06:59 AM
MaTtoy,

how did the civics go upside down?
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: MaTtoy on December 09, 2003, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: zero_cfm on December 09, 2003, 11:06:59 AM
MaTtoy,

how did the civics go upside down?
OT:

only the SIR toppled over...apparently....he was pretty quick in the hairpin of the short track...turned too late i gues....then bham  :)....

as for the other civic...i believed bangga lang...i think they were able to bring it home pa....
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on December 09, 2003, 12:02:50 PM
the tfront tires dug into the soft soil which created a point of leverage...I would like to call it pole vault effect. :-[
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: MaTtoy on December 09, 2003, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: enigmazutapia on December 09, 2003, 12:02:50 PM
the tfront tires dug into the soft soil which created a point of leverage...I would like to call it pole vault effect. :-[
yes...that's the better and more scientific way to explain how it happened... :)
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: dj`wakz on December 20, 2003, 08:15:54 PM
makikisingit lng po...   :) nde ba strict sa RWYB ang helmet? alam ko strict sila sobra... you can't run without any helmet on kahit na trackdays and orientation run.

siguro yun type of helmet lng sila nde strict sa RWYB except para sa mga pro racers kailangan Snell (tama ba) 95 and DOT approved un helmet... sa mga RWYB participants optional lng yan pero better if we use those kind of helmet.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on January 29, 2004, 05:17:25 AM
Quote from: MaTtoy on December 09, 2003, 10:03:57 AM
just to add... ;D additional tips for upcoming track days...

- double or even triple check your brake system...change pads, reface your disc brakes, etc. if you have to...one can live with worn out tires but faulty brakes are deadly....

- bring spare fuses

- add to your cellphone's phonebook the #'s of tow truck companies...they will come in handy when you need them...

- don't forget to bring a spare tire or tires

- make sure your car is at full tank before entering the track...more importantly make sure your gas gauge works well...gas stations aren't near to the tracks...

- make sure the important gauges work well...oil, temp, gas and tach...

- duct tape your headlights...in case rocks hit them...they won't break all over the track as much...

Also, some track day and RWYB organizers here in the country aren't really strict with helmets....but I really think they are necessary...I personally witnessed 2 civics during the last Honda RWYB in subic a couple weeks back reck their cars...the SIR's roof was only about an inch from the driver's head when it toppled over...it wasn't a pretty sight but just imagine if he didn't have a helmet...so if you value your head...use a helmet... ;D
full tank ? . . . i say bring na lang reserve.  full tank makes your car heavier.
AFAIK, Subic are strict on helmets when using their track.

another question:
how about the clutch assembly?
do they have certain mileage to replace them?
if so, what do need replacing? the disk? the pressure plate? or both?

Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: hesperusph on January 29, 2004, 05:48:29 PM
Quote
full tank ? . . . i say bring na lang reserve.  full tank makes your car heavier.
Quote

YES, full tank definitely.  if your car generates high g-loads, you run the risk of experiencing fuel surge if you start running low on fuel.

and you know what happens when you run lean on the track for even a few seconds...

KA-BLOOIE!

i'd rather carry a few kg extra weight, than run the risk of blowing her up because i was at 1/4 tank nalang...
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: El on January 30, 2004, 03:07:46 AM
what exactly happens during a fuel surge?? and how does it lead to a ka-blooie!??
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on January 30, 2004, 05:46:51 AM
Quote from: hesperusph on January 29, 2004, 05:48:29 PM
Quote
full tank ? . . . i say bring na lang reserve.  full tank makes your car heavier.
Quote

YES, full tank definitely.  if your car generates high g-loads, you run the risk of experiencing fuel surge if you start running low on fuel.

and you know what happens when you run lean on the track for even a few seconds...

KA-BLOOIE!

i'd rather carry a few kg extra weight, than run the risk of blowing her up because i was at 1/4 tank nalang...
umm . . . sorry, i dont get it.

half tank i think will do 8-10 laps in SIR or BRC.
the lighter the car, the more efficient, IMO.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: hesperusph on January 31, 2004, 04:07:13 PM
if you're running low fuel levels na, and your car is pulling very heavy g-loads in the corners, the little fuel that's left gets thrown around the fuel tank, and the pick-up may be unable to get at the fuel.

so you may suddenly find yourself running lean, and on a highly stressed, highly tuned engine that demands a lot of fuel-- lalo na pag F.I.-- you may damage something.  remember, even only a few seconds of bad detonation can be all it takes to damage your pistons.

granted, this is a relatively rare occurence (i.e., fuel surge).  but it CAN happen.

i have one of those old Best Motoring "super battle" races around a long high speed track (not tsukuba), where they had an Evo 5 chasing a Ferrari F355 for the lead.  the Evo was gaining, and suddenly the engine gave up.  i don't speak or understand japanese, but a friend of mine who had it translated said that the engine let go as a result of fuel surge.

and one time before, while at BRC, i was having so much fun around the track, i suddenly felt the car "stutter" rather severely particularly at casino.  i checked my fuel gauge, and saw i was running kinda low na.  but the problem only occured when pulling high lateral g's... so it was a fuel pick-up issue.

chances of it happening to you?  probably quite low, especially if you just keep track of your gas level.

but do you REALLY want to take those chances?  ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: luwe on February 01, 2004, 03:31:43 AM
Besides you can always just remove some crap from your car to make it lighter. Like the passenger seat, for example  ;)

Kung trackday talagang full tank dapat. Kundi hindi na ako makakauwi. Nakakawili masyado umikot ikot e.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: fatbastard on February 01, 2004, 07:58:44 AM
i heard that BRC upped its prices na for the year..... any truth to this??  ???
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on February 02, 2004, 01:26:07 AM
Quote from: mz_danni on January 29, 2004, 05:17:25 AManother question:
how about the clutch assembly?
do they have certain mileage to replace them?
if so, what do need replacing? the disk? the pressure plate? or both?

follow up question lang.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Leepu Awlia on February 02, 2004, 02:07:27 AM
Quote from: mz_danni on February 02, 2004, 01:26:07 AM
Quote from: mz_danni on January 29, 2004, 05:17:25 AManother question:
how about the clutch assembly?
do they have certain mileage to replace them?
if so, what do need replacing? the disk? the pressure plate? or both?

follow up question lang.
clutch disc, pressure plate and throw out bearing should be replaced at the same time. they are replaced as needed.
when you start noticing the clutch starting to slip, when you start noticing a shuddering in 1st gear coming off a standstill, when you start noticing bearing whine from the bell housing, then its time......
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on February 02, 2004, 05:54:22 AM
thanx for the response.
so that means, no necessary mileage what so ever.
it really depend on the feel (feedback).
thanx.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: enigmazutapia on February 02, 2004, 08:23:10 PM
Quote from: hesperusph on January 31, 2004, 04:07:13 PM
if you're running low fuel levels na, and your car is pulling very heavy g-loads in the corners, the little fuel that's left gets thrown around the fuel tank, and the pick-up may be unable to get at the fuel.

so you may suddenly find yourself running lean, and on a highly stressed, highly tuned engine that demands a lot of fuel-- lalo na pag F.I.-- you may damage something.  remember, even only a few seconds of bad detonation can be all it takes to damage your pistons.

granted, this is a relatively rare occurence (i.e., fuel surge).  but it CAN happen.

i have one of those old Best Motoring "super battle" races around a long high speed track (not tsukuba), where they had an Evo 5 chasing a Ferrari F355 for the lead.  the Evo was gaining, and suddenly the engine gave up.  i don't speak or understand japanese, but a friend of mine who had it translated said that the engine let go as a result of fuel surge.

and one time before, while at BRC, i was having so much fun around the track, i suddenly felt the car "stutter" rather severely particularly at casino.  i checked my fuel gauge, and saw i was running kinda low na.  but the problem only occured when pulling high lateral g's... so it was a fuel pick-up issue.

chances of it happening to you?  probably quite low, especially if you just keep track of your gas level.

but do you REALLY want to take those chances?  ;D


Ummm singit lang....I guess a baffled fuel cell is in order and would be nice to place on your wants list........hehehehehe
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: hesperusph on February 03, 2004, 09:07:28 AM
Quote
Ummm singit lang....I guess a baffled fuel cell is in order and would be nice to place on your wants list........hehehehehe
Quote

and while you're at it, might as well get a baffled oil pan!  or mag dry sump ka na!   ;D
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Auto_Xer on February 15, 2004, 11:56:56 AM
Hindi ata fuel surge tawag dun, kundi fuel starvation.

You use a surge tank(secondary smaller tank that's always kept full & is between the primary fuel tank & engine) to counter fuel starvation.

Baffled fuel tank or a foam filled fuel cell will help too.

Re: clutch
Replacement is always subject to wear & driving habits.
It's the same with brake pads & other parts of the car.
The harder/rougher you launch/shift/brake/etc your car(or the less smooth you are) the more wear/stress it's subjected to.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on February 17, 2004, 09:37:36 AM
thanx for the clear explanation, Auto_Xer. :-*
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Sc0oby on February 17, 2004, 10:19:11 AM
Your welcome, mz danni.
Just trying to help out as always.

An additional thing to check when going to the track.

You should also check yourself to make sure your relexed & not in "gigil" mode.
More often than not, accidents of new(& old) track drivers stem from making mistakes by being to tense.

If your a new comer to the track take time to learn the limits of your car, the track layout before going flat out.

Something more about clutches & brakes.
Don't forget to break in you new parts first before subjecting them to hard use.
They'll last longer as you won't glaze the mating surfaces of the brake pads/rotors & pressure plate/disc/flywheel.

Subjecting them to abuse immediately after installation will result in the surfaces having a slippery mirror like "top coating".
You might end up with parts in worst condition then you started out with.

Using Sc0oby's PC....Auto_Xer
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: mz_danni on February 20, 2004, 01:35:37 AM
thanx again, sir.
ill try to remember that :-*.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Auto_Xer on February 23, 2004, 02:28:32 PM
Your welcome.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Territory TX on September 06, 2004, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: Sc0oby on February 17, 2004, 10:19:11 AM
Your welcome, mz danni.
Just trying to help out as always.

An additional thing to check when going to the track.

You should also check yourself to make sure your relexed & not in "gigil" mode.
More often than not, accidents of new(& old) track drivers stem from making mistakes by being to tense.

If your a new comer to the track take time to learn the limits of your car, the track layout before going flat out.

Something more about clutches & brakes.
Don't forget to break in you new parts first before subjecting them to hard use.
They'll last longer as you won't glaze the mating surfaces of the brake pads/rotors & pressure plate/disc/flywheel.

Subjecting them to abuse immediately after installation will result in the surfaces having a slippery mirror like "top coating".
You might end up with parts in worst condition then you started out with.

Using Sc0oby's PC....Auto_Xer

yup tama ka dyan, i just had a sports clutch installed, nasunog ko agad when i went up a stand for a muffler change (medyo nanibago sa tigas ng clutch). 3 months later slide agad siya. its better talaga na ma break in mo ng maganda bago birahin...
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: Tats on October 06, 2004, 07:29:16 AM
I might be joining if my workload permits me. :)

Just a reminder:

Please be familiar with the flags that will be used at the track.  

Ex.
Blue flag - a car faster than you is trying to pass, make way.
Yellow flag - hazard ahead, slow down.
Black flag - you are a dangerous driver, you are not permitted to be at the track anymore.
Etc...etc...

These are all for our own safety. :)

Just a suggestion that can be added in your checklist:

1) Don't forget to bring food.

2) Bring lots of drinking water.

3) Helmet - full face or open face. As long as it fits your head :)

4) Driving shoes or anything that is comfortable for your feet.  Just make sure you can still feel the pedal
pressure.

5) Car with at least 3-point working seatbelt.

6) Check your car with leaking fluids. Correct it before track day.

7) Check for super loose joints, bushings and bearings.  Car will not handle properly at the track if these are not replaced.

8. Check all fluids.  Bring extras if you can.

9) Use roadworthy street tires.  You don't need intermediates or slicks.  Check air pressures (including spare tire) in the morning before you proceed to BRC because cold tires provides accurate tire pressures.  

10) As much as possible, bring your available tools and equipment that you can easily carry in your car.

11) Full of Patience.

12) Lots of Discipline.
Title: Re:something for the track drivers
Post by: KeWlRyDs on October 06, 2004, 08:15:42 AM
Quote from: Ralliart on October 06, 2004, 07:29:16 AM
Blue flag - a car faster than you is trying to pass, make way.
Yellow flag - hazard ahead, slow down.
Black flag - you are a dangerous driver, you are not permitted to be at the track anymore.

just to be more accurate...

blue flag - this is used when a backmarkeris about to be lapped by the race leaders.

yellow flag - this is used to indicate hazardous conditions ahead. speeds are reduced. the race still continues but there will be no passing allowed under the yellow flag.

black flag - this used to signal adriver to exit the track because of dangerous conditions on his vehicle or for misconduct on the track.
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: Mikey23 on September 05, 2006, 05:26:39 AM
Hi! im just new here in AI and after reading this topic i was surprised to know that there are a lot of things i oversee in my car.. Thanks for the tips! Track day is really hard up on our cars and we should take a lot of time, setting and tuning it for the event. :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: chd_22 on March 08, 2007, 02:53:18 AM
very informative topic. :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: fade on March 27, 2007, 03:32:04 PM
Very very good thread.

The list provided by the thread starter was strictly observed when we had our trackday last sunday!

OT:
Thanks to "Accord GTR" for teaching me how to go around the track and checking the tire pressure, lugnuts torque, etc. :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: dMott on April 07, 2008, 07:02:15 PM
indeed very informative....
thanks to the thread starter.... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: NANO on September 26, 2008, 03:16:13 AM
see this link.. nice info..

http://www.drivingfast.net/
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: cocho on October 01, 2008, 10:40:40 AM
Quote from: RS_Sprint on September 23, 2003, 08:36:42 PM
Was sent ot me by hesperus, just wanted to share this with everyone.
_____________________________________________

How hard do you drive on a track day? 90%, 100%, 110%?

Have you any idea how hard your car is working too?

How hard do you drive on the road? 60%, 70%?

Track days are incredibly hard on a car. No problem for an Evo but
bear in mind how much you are stressing the car. Everyone
understands that brake pads wear quickly, tyres wear on the edges
faster than normal but what else?

Think of the stresses on wheel bearings, wheel studs, discs,
suspension bushes, oils, steering joints, engine mountings, brake
fluid etc.

If you are serious about track days and do more than two or three a
year then look at the maintenance schedule of your car. You cannot
expect to do this to your car and then poodle off home and go to
work in the morning, checking only the washer fluid level.

You should think about a service and check over after 3 track days
if they are occurring within a 2 month period. If you regularly
visit the track and cannot bring your car to us then please take
some advice from us for free.

The list below is in addition to the usual tyre and brake checks:

* Change the brake fluid twice a year.
* Change oil and filter every 3000 miles.
* Check the air filter every meeting.
* Clean if cleanable every other meeting.
* Change wheel studs and nuts (if applicable) every year without fail.
* Change transmission oils at the end of the year.
* Inspect discs for cracking and overheating after every meeting.
* Get wheel bearings checked at the end of the year.
* Change cam belt every year (depending on road mileage).
* Check suspension alignment twice a year and all bushes (unless an
off meant this was recently done).
* Check all air, water and fuel hoses and clips for stressing and
chaffing every meeting.
* Check engine and transmission mountings at the end of the year.

Regarding actual track day use, try to follow this advice:

* Take a torque wrench to the track day and check wheel torque after
1st session and then at the end of the session before lunchtime. If
one stud only needs tightening at any time then it is stretching.
Replace immediately.

* Do the last lap of each session a lot slower than the others, let the
whole car cool down.

* Do not switch off immediately on returning from the track.

* Do not put the handbrake on immediately on returning from the track.
It can warp the hot rear discs, because of uneven cooling. Try to
keep the car still with the engine running but with no handbrake or
footbrake. When you switch off the engine put it in gear, do not use the
handbrake.

* Check oil and water levels and temperatures (carefully) before each
session.
_____________________________________________

May mga ibang obvious, mga iba hindi mo rin naisip.

See you all on the track soon!


Hala! Nakakatakot pala ang abuse na ginagawa sa car... Naaawa tuloy ako sa car ko kahit sabihin na 1.5 yrs old pa lang kasi bone stock sya & yet 3 trackdays ko na sya nagagamit just this 2008 alone... Kinakabahan ako kasi kahit casa maintained eh malamang pang daily use lang ang maintenance na ginagawa nila.. :(

but nonetheless, very helpful info sir! :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: autofreak03 on October 15, 2008, 02:10:04 PM
great thread very informative
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: KitSir on October 18, 2008, 11:09:58 PM
Speaking of track days was anybody lucky enough to join the advanced track session on Subic International Raceday this Oct 18 & 19? Wanted to go but only found out about it a few days ago. Not enough time to get ready for it considering all of the stuff that I have to get checked... :evil5:
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: KitSir on October 18, 2008, 11:36:51 PM
Another thing that you should consider before going are your tires. Make sure that they are up to spec because this can save you some heartache and can be an added factor to avoid some major accidents but then again a lot of discipline is also needed for that. If this is your first time then try to invest on a good set of tires that can be used for the track.  :wav:
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: kugmo on October 31, 2008, 07:32:40 AM
So there are a lot of things to consider eh, I hope we do not stress out our trucks too much but I guess it's build in those conditions...
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: mrk888 on January 11, 2009, 08:10:26 AM
good tips!  :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: emanzano on January 23, 2009, 06:19:50 AM
subscribing to a great thread :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: mic883 on February 23, 2009, 01:01:06 PM
ganda ng info  ;D
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: andio on March 24, 2009, 11:21:02 AM
nice thread.. i have learned a lot.. mag ttrack pa lang ako and i have no experince yet on track days, so this is a good start i guess. basa basa muna ng tips. ;D
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: sr4eva on April 02, 2009, 02:30:12 PM
....complete struts and suspensions
....and check battery tie down and driver seats railings kung kalog hehe
kelan ba nxt track day
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: pinkmachine on September 04, 2009, 05:08:05 PM
this is really informative.. however would it not be too expensive to maintain such? do have any article to cut cost in racing?
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: blue TRD on October 31, 2009, 08:47:27 AM

very informative thanks.  :thumbsup: nothing beats good preparation and maintenance.
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: TheVoid on July 25, 2010, 11:54:21 PM
thank you for the list ;) very helpful :)
Title: Re: something for the track drivers
Post by: Bingo on July 22, 2015, 04:47:49 AM
Thanks For some INFO :D :wav: UP UP UP !