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My opinion about getting a good paintjob

Started by theveed, June 25, 2004, 01:44:32 PM

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theveed

A lot of people ask whether X shop is good in painting or Y brand paint is better than Z brand paint. I'd like to give my opinion so that people who want to get their cars repainted to consider some points that paint shop and paint brands fail to mention.

I only believe that if you want a good paint job, give the shop ample time to do the work and be willing to pay the labor hours needed to do a good paint job. It doesn't really matter what the "image" of the shop is, chances are, if you don't give them enough time, chances are your car will be rushed.

This is, of course, assuming that the shop is CAPABLE of doing a great paint job.

Most painters are good painters, but sad to say most painters (even in other countries) are good at painting, they concentrate at painting, but give the sanding and buffing tasks to lesser skilled workers. As any detailer knows, the sanding and buffing make or break the final results of the paint job.

If a car is painted properly, even if you use cheap paint, and finished with careful sanding and buffing, the result will rival the best of paint jobs out there. You can use the most expensive paint there is, the result will only be as good as the prep and the final stages of sanding and buffing. Of course, using the high end paint guns, paint booths, catalyst curing, etc will make the job BETTER, but remember that the whole painting process has to be good in the first place before it can be better.

Funny how in painting, the paint isn't the biggest X factor for good results.
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

theveed

In addition, little things make or break a paint job, from masking the moldings, removing emblems, etc. Chances are, unless you're willing to compensate their time for removing and reinstalling them, they'll probably just mask those things with tape. Needless to say, you'll see a line caused by the mask and it'll be very unsightly no matter how good the rest of the car will look.

I believe that the owner of the car should do their part to ensure the paintshop will have no excuses not to do a good job. Owners should remove all parts that they don't want paint to land on such as seats, items in car, sidings, lights, moldings, etc. This way, all parts that should be painted will be painted, and those that should'nt be, wont. Saves the painter time from masking, saves you headache from removing overspray afterwards.

Clean your paint well and remove any traces of silicone from your old paint. Silicone impregnates deep into the paint pores and will prevent the new paint from bonding.

Know what to expect. Be very clear as to how you want the paint job to look and have it in writing. You have to let the shop know that you KNOW what your paint should look like and what should NOT be there such as pinholes, "mapa", fisheye, bubbles, etc. Defects from a paint job is usually permanent, it cannot be corrected unless the panel is stripped and repainted. The more you try to "salvage" it, the worse it'll get. Don't fall for the "intayin mo ng ilang linggo, papantay yan"... B.S.
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

theveed

In most service industries, you get what you pay for, simply put, what you're paying is the labor hours spent by the company, equipment and supplies are usually auxillary charges. Bulk of what you pay is the shop's time. This is true for paintshops, body shops, repair shops, detailing shop, etc.

So if the "market rate" for a washover is 20-30K for a small sedan, and someone offers you a washover for P15K, expect to get 20-30% less quality than normal. If the 15K job matches the 20-30K results, then you've hit the jackpot and better establish something with this company.

On the other hand, if someone offers you a washover for 40-50K, you have to expect the job to be proportional to what they charge.

Quite often, I see newly painted cars come into our detailing shop seeking to correct paint problems caused by the paint shop itself. Isn't this ironic? The most common are:

1) Paint overspray (if panel repaired) - Yes they mask the adjacent panel, but they should know that paint mist travels a lot farther than 2ft or so. The whole car ends up rough and gritty.
2) Paint overpray in panels not meant to be sprayed - Ranging from tires, wheels, mufflers, fender lining, interior, upholstery, engine components, etc. These are inexcusable, fresh paint comes off easily with paint thinners, once set, it'll be difficult to remove.
3) Paint shop waxing their newly painted panel before returning the car to customer to "mimik" gloss. Oh how common is it for us to see and smell a fresh coat of wax on the paint. Usually it's Turtle Wax green... We deal with waxes quite often and it's an easily recognizable look and smell if the car is waxed.
4) Panels, clips, clamps not returned or replaced if broken. This is not entirely the paint shop's fault. Many plastic clips and holders are one-time use items only and should be replaced once removed, the clip will not have the same tension or gripping power once removed. But don't try to cover it up by using wires, tape, etc.
5) Paint defects such as wool pad buffer swirls, compound dust in edges and moldings, burnt moldings and rubber parts, etc. Again, accidents do happen, but it should be minimized. If it did occur, demand compensation in any way that's acceptable to you, the owner.

I hope some of these comments will make you a smarter shopper when it comes to painting. I don't own a paint shop, so I'm not endorsing or bashing any shop out there. I just think that if you're planning to spend big money (heck, repaint costs as much as a 30+ inch flat screen TV!), you better do your homework.

Just remember, brands and reputation doesn't mean a thing if you didn't experience it first hand and prove that such claims are true.
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

gdeetan

Good work david, Can you recommend me a good paint shop (PM me na lang the details), I talked to blackmagic last month and he was referring me this guy Jing but I can't contact him for a quotation, maybe you have his land line or address.... Can you P.M. it to me if possible thanks.
Clean Your Car the Right Way =)

Silverado

nice article Theveed!

I'm also budgeting for a repaint after the rainy season.  pm me a quality paint shop pls.

thanks
aka Wrecker

theveed

i dont have any first hand experience sa paintng (whole car) that I paid for... so i prefer to hush about this one.

Gdee: you can find Jing's (Zinggoy) ad in Kotse.com's main forum. I thik it's titled Need to repair your dings and scratches or something like that.
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

tougefox

question lang po regarding painting your car... is it advisable na change the color of the car without rubbing the original paint of the car??  ???kung baga washover..may nagsabi kasi sa akin na ok daw ang primer ng Honda, kaya mas ok daw na wag nang rub off yung original na paint..di ko alam kung maniniwala ako or hindi kaya im doing a research...

theveed

I'd say regardless of whether you're going to change the color or not, the car needs to be sanded down. As to whether or not it'll be stripped to primer, it'll depend as to what color you're change from and to... Kung light to dark, I'd say it may be OK, but from dark to light. I don't think that'll work without stripping the old paint down to the primer... Just my guess, wait for responses from painters nalang on the board. :)
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

eunie

July 10, 2004, 02:15:09 AM #8 Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 02:16:38 AM by eunie
Theveed thats a good opinion and tips.
question lang? i have a van and gusto kong papintahan same color black and the painter is asking me a budget of 60K sa kanila na lahat. What do you think of this price? May alam ka bang magaling at maayos magpinta ng sasakyan PM mo naman sa akin.........thanks in advance..................

theveed

Like I said po, ang presyo po should be fair to the results (or promised result) of the paint job. I can't answer that po since di ko po alam how well the painter does his job.
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

jundeleon

I just got my expedition repainted by Alex Car Restoration (along roosevelt avenue) from maroon to silver, and a lot of people are saying the paint looks better than brand new.

It took nearly two months but the wait was definitely worth it.

Cost is 80k plus 25k for body repair and undercoating.

Highly recommended.

Dgnarvs

sirs, not exactly about having a new paint job but i think it's connected...

my car got slammed about a year ago and the left side of the car (both doors and front fenders) were painted by the insurance shop.  it looked quite fine when i got the car from the shop.  but lately, i noticed that these newly painted parts have a distinctly different "shade of gray" (literally, cause my civic is colored silver gray).  any guess what happened here???

(sir theveed, kaya ba ma-ayos sa big bert's???)  :)

Sergievsky

theveed, that was such a good post it made me sign up and register! 8)
It reminded me of when we were renovating the townhouse. Parang problema talaga dito sa 'Pinas. The attention to quality and details is lacking. It's almost a lack of pride in their work.
theveed, if what you preach is what you practice in your shop, then I will be a customer. Unfortunately, since I am as of now a complete moron when it comes to fixing cars, I wouldn't know how to find those reputable shops that would subscribe to a quality-at-a-fair-price motto.

For example, you said... "Most painters are good painters, but sad to say most painters (even in other countries) are good at painting, they concentrate at painting, but give the sanding and buffing tasks to lesser skilled workers. As any detailer knows, the sanding and buffing make or break the final results of the paint job. "
As a customer, what do you do? Tell them to sand and buff it themselves? What if the painter says, "don't worry, kaya nila yan?", then turns out it ain't that great. Then I got burned.

So I guess I gotta ask around. But from experience, that sometimes isn't even enough.
Anyway, I don't really know what my point is. ::) I guess I'm just venting, since I would like to fix up my car and I know I'll likely go through the same type of frustrations I went through in fixing up our place.

theveed

Thanks for the compliments and welcome to A.I.

Shopping for anything expensive is always a daunting task, it is even a bigger issue if the item you're purchasing is purely labor related and time consuming to acquire. Unlike purchasing a high end audio equipment, engine upgrades, etc, you don't get a physical item you can blame on if things do go awry, the only thing you can blame on is the painter himself (and the shop that employs him)...

To your question about sanding and buffing, as a customer you really hold the full deck of the cards so to speak, if you have everything in writing and clearly demand what you want (given the budgetary and time constraints), then the shop has to live up to it.

That's another problem with most businesses in the Phil. The shops feel that they are "immune" to complaints and the customer will just say "ah heck with it..." and forget about the issue...

Tough world out here :)
David Lee Tong
Founder: Pinas Auto Detailiny
Co-Founder: Big Bert's Professional Detailers

deejay

ebok cyempre iba-iba yung mga diskarte ng mga pintor, kaya un ngiiba nag shade nya, when our painter leaved the work on my brothers car nag-iba-iba yung shade nya. the other side wen you look at it,  ng-bla2ck tpos yung kabila nag cha2rcoal gray...this is base from our past experience...some accredited shops ng mga insurance company sometimes nag-su2ffer yng quality minsan madalian or minamasilya na lng tpos buga na kagad, cyempre tendency nyan aangat kc hindi man gng pinukpok or mali ang preparations..dami tlaga factors bkt ng iba kulay, and what i know hindi cya makukuha sa waxing or detailing..
==<<Life is Short, Dive Hard!!!>>==

http://members.cardomain.com/dee_jay19

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