HOT AIR SUCKED BY OPEN TYPE AIR FILTER

[Version1.O]

how much hp po kaya ang gain ng hks or k&n or apexi compared to simota?

[Conan®]

how much hp po kaya ang gain ng hks or k&n or apexi compared to simota?

It's mostly the build quality that differs not the HP.

[WaZ]

I'm too lazy to find the magazine again to give you the exact findings but I was very interested in the subject recently because I often race cars with much stronger engines than mine. So to wring out every ounce of power from my little B16B is very impt to me.  In my car, I have the AEM EMS stand-alone engine management system which can read my stock sensors including the inlet air or intake temp.   I discovered that my intake temp can vary a lot.  Outside temp is normally 29-35 degrees C.   My inlet temp can fluctuate between 50 to higher than 60degrees depending whether I'm idling or running.   Imagine?   That's at least a 20-30 degree difference between the outside air temp and your underhood temp.  Theoretically, if you could reduce your inlet temp to match the outside temp, you could see gains as much as 20-30hp from stock!  

additional 30 hp by just adding a CAI on a stock engine? is this possible?

[WaZ]

how much hp po kaya ang gain ng hks or k&n or apexi compared to simota?

i have both simota and knn filters, i try swapping it and let my friend guess if what is installed,he cannot tell

but as conan said, it differs in durability and filtering  

[Manga]

additional 30 hp by just adding a CAI on a stock engine? is this possible?

It may be. Maybe, if your engine is big and inExellent running condition.
Still, remember cooler air can mean a big difference in combustion behavior.
In Eaglevision(it's a research group) a tip on saving fuel is to induce hot air intake. It is just a tip.
Because the colder air has a smaller volume, which means you get more air to burn. Your engine vacuums the same ammount of air volume, whether it's Hot or Cold. The performance lies on how much O2 it gets to burn.
NOS is a very different story. It is highly volatile(?) and the reason it is used by drag cars is because of the O2 it delivers. The more O2, the better combustion.

Did anybody here tried pure O2 directed to the intake? Im just curious...

[stradale]

saka isn't the ECU capable of detecting (through the oxygen or airspeed sensor ata un) na there's more air coming in so increase nya rin fuel intake to compensate?
tnx in advance for the clarification

Good question.  

Sir Accord GTR;

Appreciate your knowhow on the subject.  

[Jango]

so with an SRI, you get less power but you get better mileage?

[stradale]

Will using an open type filter actually introduce more air into the cylinders?  Di naman nagbago ang induction pressure diba?  Atmospheric pa din.

Di kaya the gain in hp for using free flowing filters is due to the lessened resistance to the downward movement of the piston during the induction stage?

Imagine a syringe.  You could pull the plunger much easier if the hole is bigger diba?  When you put a needle (smaller hole) medyo may resistance.

What do you guys think?

[Manga]

Will using an open type filter actually introduce more air into the cylinders?  Di naman nagbago ang induction pressure diba?  Atmospheric pa din.

Di kaya the gain in hp for using free flowing filters due to the lessened resistance to the downward movement of the piston during the induction stage?

Imagine a syringe.  You could pull the plunger much easier if the hole is bigger diba?  When you put a needle (smaller hole) medyo may resistance.

What do you guys think?

Yes Yes. Atmospheric pressure changes but not the induction pressure, unless induced the t/s-charger. Your analogy is very effective.

[domeng]

Bravo!!!!!

You guys really makes alot of sense, never really thought of a simple intake upgrade would be so complicated......both positive and negative side.....

good info, keep it up

[n_tons11]

Guys, I thank you all for sharing your opinions on this subject matter...I'm just a beginner on this sort of things and I really just wanted to put my car into a good running condition...I'm just using my car regularly for street driving from home to office and vise versa. I have been told about this basic performance modifications (I/H/E), would give an additional power gain on my engine. So I did it. I change my air filter stock to an Open Type Air filter, I installed the 4-2-1 set of Headers from Nodalo's with 2" run pipe and 2" free flow exhaust muffler. I experienced a slight kick on it on the lower end gears during the first few hours of driving... but along the way after driving some few hours on the stop and go traffic in manila, medyo hirap humatak sa arangkada...pero may power naman pag naka takbo na at nasa high gear na...How could I maintain that power on the lower end considering that I have this 1st stage modification completed...a highlight on this regard from anybody is very much appreciated...by the way my ride is a 1.6L Toyota GLi 2000 model...engine is 4A-FE.

bro,

we have almost the same set-up with my car before... 4a-fe engine, 4-1 nodalos headers, cone type intake, 2" barrel exhaust setup(TOMS).

ive noticed that super ganda ng response ng engine habang malamig pa xa... i could really feel the kick ng acceleration. but after how many minutes driving humihina na accel pag umiinit na engine mo. ive tried driving my cuz corolla which is the same model as mine na all stock...better pa acceleration ng car nya than mine with all the I/H/E mods. hindi na balanced or pang daily driving.. okay lang sya pag night,early morning drives.

haven't changed anything na with ou8r present car.

i'm not trying to say na hindi ako bilib sa mga mods.. coz i for one naka experience having some mods sa car.. in my case.. panandaliang aliw lang ang effect ng mods na ginawa ko sa corolla ko. hehehe.

[mykboo]

so with an SRI, you get less power but you get better mileage?

based on my experience... an SRI is still better than most stock systems because you still get more air and over stock i definitely feel my car is stronger in most conditions... an opne type filter wud be quite bad if u wer driving at around 12noon in bumper to bumper trafic  pero in most cases the SRI is still beter.. pero stil this is based on my experience.  oh and cool or hot i got better mileage with a simota than stock

[Jango]

just installed my SRI back again. the throttle response is really different compared to stock. the car seems a lot lighter. havent really noticed the difference when its running hot but i really hate the whistling sound it makes.

[7gk20a]

Wow! That is a lot of technical information regarding intake.  

Anyway, to answer your question..my opinion is that is you have any kind of intake that is exposed to hot air in the engine bay, you will definately not gain as much as you expect.  Of course wether it will be more or less gain than a drop in, would depend on the car, and the set up of the car.  But I guess to simplify things...whatever kind of setup you want, you should try to lessen its exposure to hot air.  The drop in I think will yield less gain, in general compared to exposed one with a heat shield that is properly made.

I follow the general rule...colder mean more dense, more dense means more O2, and more O2 means more power.  Of course cars can adjust a bit, this is natural because of the change in temperature throughout the day...it is naturally warmer noon time and cooler at night.  The car's ECU will surely be able to adjust to this.

[Accord GTR]

Quote from: kenet_3 on August 24, 2005, 10:20:27 pm
saka isn't the ECU capable of detecting (through the oxygen or airspeed sensor ata un) na there's more air coming in so increase nya rin fuel intake to compensate?
tnx in advance for the clarification  


Good question.  

Sir Accord GTR;

Appreciate your knowhow on the subject.  

It's actually more complicated than that...

The oxygen or O2 sensor is like a narrow-band air/fuel sensor.   It is there to help your car idle smoother during cold-start-ups, by richening the mixture.  It doesn't have the range and quick reaction time of a wide-band a/f reader to give the correct info to the ECU in a timely way that will allow the ECU to compensate for overlean conditions.  So it's only useful for compensating for lean conditions for very low-rpm operation

The airspeed sensor naman is like the MAP sensor for Hondas and MAF sensor in Evo's.  Basically it is one of the sensors that the ECU uses to determine the "load" on the engine.  This load, together with engine rpm, form the fuel and ignition "maps" that controls the injectors and ignition timing advance, the COMBINATION of which forms the basic program that makes an engine run at a certain efficiency (depends kasi if its tuned for performance or economy.  Usually, factory tunes for economy).  When you modify your engine with bolt-ons without modifying these maps, you are basically messing up the combination so that the engine may have more power at some part of the RPM range but could lose power or operate dangerously at another part.

It's the "fuel map" that determines the a/f mix by controlling the rate the injectors are squirting.  Your factory ECU has a map that is set, it doesn't change.  What is happening when you modify your engine, if the engine is reading a higher load than before, due to your bolt-on modifcations,  it will go to the another part of the map where the load matches the rpm.  This may or may not result in the optimum a/f mixture.  It does give more fuel since there is more load and usually, when an engineexperiences more load, it needs more fuel, but it still may not be enough.  

So you may be right, when you say the engine is "compensating" but you don't know if the compensation is balanced or safe.  

Let me use an analogy: you changed the tires to wider, stickier tires so you say "my car grips more now, so I can drive faster".  So you do but only to find out, due to the added grip, the car leans more during hard cornering and because you didn't change the shocks, the car becomes unstable as it cannot control the increased suspension travel.  So yes, you have increased performance but you also made it unsafe.

This is why when you modify your engine, you get a slight increase in performance but when you dyno-tune it, you can get an even bigger increase.  Dyno tuning is basically changing your ECU's fuel and ignition maps so that 1> optimum a/f mix is restored and 2> optimum ignition timing is restored

Did I explain that easy enough to understand?