HOT AIR SUCKED BY OPEN TYPE AIR FILTER

[Mark]

Good day to all the good guys of AI...I would just like to ask how does the hot air being sucked by the open type air filter inside the engine bay, affects the performance of the 1st stage modification (I/H/E)...will this hot air jeopardize the supposed to be gained HP from the modification?...any assesment from the team is highly appreciated...thanks.

Mark

[Conan®]

Good day to all the good guys of AI...I would just like to ask how does the hot air being sucked by the open type air filter inside the engine bay, affects the performance of the 1st stage modification (I/H/E)...will this hot air jeopardize the supposed to be gained HP from the modification?...any assesment from the team is highly appreciated...thanks.

Mark

Hot air being sucked in will definitely reduce/negate power gained by moving to an open type air filter. A 'heat shield" must be fabricated to block the hot air from reaching the open type air filter, or a "ducting hose" that directs cold air toward the filter should remedy this.

[edl100]

Hi, did you but this open type already??

If not, don't purchase this.  Your car will run bad with it.  Just get a drop-in K&N air filter if there is one for your car.    The stock air intake design is much better unless you are into racing.  

[speedyfix]

stock k&n filter will gain you about 1-2hp. not worth it imo.

you have to think about it this way, when you're at speed, the engine isn't that hot since air from the bumper, under the car is circulating around the engine bay. this cools things down considerably.

pretty sure an open element filter even without a heat shield will gain you more hp than a drop in k&n one.

[Accord GTR]

From my car magazine that used an RSX Type S to test short intake and cold-air intake (CAI) systems compared to stock system,  findings were:
-  All the aftermarket intakes produced significant gains over stock system
-  All the CAI intakes produced significant gains over the short intakes
-  The AEM ver2 CAI got the biggest gain.
-  For every 1 degree drop in intake temp, there is a corresponding 1 HP GAIN!   this is really significant

I'm too lazy to find the magazine again to give you the exact findings but I was very interested in the subject recently because I often race cars with much stronger engines than mine. So to wring out every ounce of power from my little B16B is very impt to me.  In my car, I have the AEM EMS stand-alone engine management system which can read my stock sensors including the inlet air or intake temp.   I discovered that my intake temp can vary a lot.  Outside temp is normally 29-35 degrees C.   My inlet temp can fluctuate between 50 to higher than 60degrees depending whether I'm idling or running.   Imagine?   That's at least a 20-30 degree difference between the outside air temp and your underhood temp.  Theoretically, if you could reduce your inlet temp to match the outside temp, you could see gains as much as 20-30hp from stock!  

Colder air increases HP because colder air is denser than hot air.   So, for a given volume of air passing thru your intake manifold and into your combustion chamber, with colder air, you get more air molecules to burn.   More air = more power.   But its not really that simple because your engine needs more fuel to burn more air too or you may run too lean and start to detonate if you happen to overload your engine.

My suggestion, if you don't race, just replace your engine with a K&N filter.   It does make a couple of HP but it also lasts a long, long time which makes it very cost-efficient since you save on replacing your air filter every 3 to 6 months.

If you do race occasionally or just want more power, and don't intend to get an A/F and ignition controller, just use the short intake.  

If you're going to go all-out with an aftermarket engine mngt system, purchase a CAI system, or make one!

I made a custom CAI system that utilizes an Iceman short-intake with K&N filter, custom fiber-glass cool box that encloses the filter and prevents engine heat from entering, and a hood scoop whose bottom mates with the cool box and supplies colder air for my intake.   I know it gave me more power as I felt it on the hi-way and on the track.   To get exact figures, I'll have to dyno with a very big fan blowing air into my hood scoop to simulate on-road performance.

[Territory TX]

correct me if i'm wrong.

"cold air" + fuel = more power

what if you could "fool" the computer that it is sucking cold air constantly, will you have the same/constant power band all through out (drag or around the circuit)?

[Mark]

Guys, I thank you all for sharing your opinions on this subject matter...I'm just a beginner on this sort of things and I really just wanted to put my car into a good running condition...I'm just using my car regularly for street driving from home to office and vise versa. I have been told about this basic performance modifications (I/H/E), would give an additional power gain on my engine. So I did it. I change my air filter stock to an Open Type Air filter, I installed the 4-2-1 set of Headers from Nodalo's with 2" run pipe and 2" free flow exhaust muffler. I experienced a slight kick on it on the lower end gears during the first few hours of driving... but along the way after driving some few hours on the stop and go traffic in manila, medyo hirap humatak sa arangkada...pero may power naman pag naka takbo na at nasa high gear na...How could I maintain that power on the lower end considering that I have this 1st stage modification completed...a highlight on this regard from anybody is very much appreciated...by the way my ride is a 1.6L Toyota GLi 2000 model...engine is 4A-FE.

[Accord GTR]

I'll try to answer both your questions, Mark & wcv:

Not so familiar with your engine Mark but I'm assuming its fuel injected or EFI?   It its carbureted, then I'm just wasting my time!  ;-)

All EFI engines have a factory-programmed ECU that contains the fuel & ignition maps that determine how much fuel and ignition timing the engine gets for a certain set of engine parameters:  throttle position (how much you step on the gas), rpm, engine load, coolant temp, air inlet temp, etc.  The result is to give your engine a power curve (HP & torque) that more for economy and daily driving.   These maps are programmed at the factory for the climate and conditions where the car will be marketed at.   Naturally, if you get a JDM (japanese) engine, it won't be optimized for our climate and conditions.   But since you have a PHIL model, lets assume it was tuned perfectly for the Phils.

So what happened after you modified your engine...you gave it more air and you reduced the backpressure in the exhaust.   But the ECU doesn't really know that and its still using the same maps as a stock engine.   So you kinda ruined the mix.   It's like, you wanted your wife to bake you your favorite dish that your Momma used to make you when you were a kid so you asked Mom give her the recipe.   But your wife thinking she's a better cook than your Mom, put more sugar and spices without changing anything else.   So, anyway, finish the story...the recipe is like the fuel & ignition maps.  The sugar and spices are like the modifications you made.   Is the end result what you really wanted?

This is what I think is happening:  The I/H/E basically did give you some added torque in the lower range and a bit more hp in the upper rpm's simply because of better flow.   But your engine is now running leaner, meaning the air-to-fuel ratio or AFR is now less than what the factory wanted it to be.   Lean engines get more economy but also run hotter because they are more prone to higher combustion chamber temperatures with less fuel to burn.   What do you do when you want to make your BBQ hotter?   You fan the flames, right?   That's what you did with your intake/filter when you didn't bother giving it more fuel.   Added fuel, if you can burn it, makes more power and also serves to bring down combustion chamber temperatures.   But added fuel hurts economy and causes more harmful emmisions so Toyota tunes to get that optimum "balance".   Screw with it at your own risk!

So your engine runs ok for a while but after awhile, your combustion chamber temp is rising.   Do you sometimes hear a metallic rattling sound when you accelerate from idle or climbing uphill from low rpms or carrying a heavy load?   That's the sound of death for your engine or "knock" or pinging!   Sucking hot air during heavy traffic just makes things worse but the problem is more the AFR than the hot engine air.  Eventhough you add a cold-air intake, the problem would still be there or get worse.  

Here's more bad news facts that you'd like to know.  Most modern engines are tuned to what's called a "lean-burn" technology for better economy (only racer's like power over economy anyway).   By putting in your I/H/E, you made your engine burn even leaner.  So, bad, very bad.

How to solve it without going back to stock?   Hehe.   Add a piggyback engine management system from the folks at Fusion R that will re-tune your ECU and have Autoplus dyno your engine to tune it.   Minimum cost?  P35,000.   But for what?  You don't race.  You just wanted more power.   But like the recipe of your Mom, you need to change everything else to get back the "balance" if you want a safely running, efficient and powerful engine.

Sorry  ;-)

[Dondie]

correct me if i'm wrong.

"cold air" + fuel = more power

what if you could "fool" the computer that it is sucking cold air constantly, will you have the same/constant power band all through out (drag or around the circuit)?

Im not sure about that.

Maybe more advanced engines with more sophisticated sensors can do such, but only to a certain extent.

Density is Physical, you cant expect to make more power relying on the engine/comp to put in a better fuel and spark combination to match, if the dense air isnt really there in the first place.

And thus.. the total solution: Turbocharging.

[Accord GTR]

And thus.. the total solution: Turbocharging.

Hahaha.   That just opens up a whole new pandora's box of problems!  

I know you were just joking, Dondie.  Seriously guys, unless you're willing to be very intimate with your car, get to know your mechanic on a personal basis, and having your car in the shop 50% of the time, I wouldn't go turbocharging.  I'm just saying that cuz as a warning but you can't reach motoring nirvana unless you've heard and felt your own turbo spooling up and building boost towards redline!  

[Conan®]

Guys, I thank you all for sharing your opinions on this subject matter...I'm just a beginner on this sort of things and I really just wanted to put my car into a good running condition...I'm just using my car regularly for street driving from home to office and vise versa. I have been told about this basic performance modifications (I/H/E), would give an additional power gain on my engine. So I did it. I change my air filter stock to an Open Type Air filter, I installed the 4-2-1 set of Headers from Nodalo's with 2" run pipe and 2" free flow exhaust muffler. I experienced a slight kick on it on the lower end gears during the first few hours of driving... but along the way after driving some few hours on the stop and go traffic in manila, medyo hirap humatak sa arangkada...pero may power naman pag naka takbo na at nasa high gear na...How could I maintain that power on the lower end considering that I have this 1st stage modification completed...a highlight on this regard from anybody is very much appreciated...by the way my ride is a 1.6L Toyota GLi 2000 model...engine is 4A-FE.

If your car runs ok when it's relatively cool and then loses performance after hours of stop and go traffic I think it's because the hot air is getting sucked in by the air filter. Have someone fabricate a heat shield for you.

I used to have this problem in the past. In fact the rubber part of my intake filter would even melt and crack due to the heat coming from the radiator fan. My problems were solved when I put an aluminum heat shield.

[borly]

If your car runs ok when it's relatively cool and then loses performance after hours of stop and go traffic I think it's because the hot air is getting sucked in by the air filter. Have someone fabricate a heat shield for you.

I used to have this problem in the past. In fact the rubber part of my intake filter would even melt and crack due to the heat coming from the radiator fan. My problems were solved when I put an aluminum heat shield.

what happened na to your arc induction box?  

how's the new intake?

[samurai_rex]

If your car runs ok when it's relatively cool and then loses performance after hours of stop and go traffic I think it's because the hot air is getting sucked in by the air filter. Have someone fabricate a heat shield for you.

I used to have this problem in the past. In fact the rubber part of my intake filter would even melt and crack due to the heat coming from the radiator fan. My problems were solved when I put an aluminum heat shield.

i have an aluminum heatshield too - imo, it works great.
it was custom-made by a former ralliart kong kong tech -
i have this on my galant - i have a k&n open type air filter housed inside my aluminum heatshield. a pic of my engine bay to just to give you an idea.

[FlyLO]

^^^Samurai_Rex
Thats hot right there (no pun intended) hehehe

Looks good got bigger res pics?

[Conan®]

what happened na to your arc induction box?  

how's the new intake?

Actually I've melted the rubber parts of both ARC and K&N filter in the past. I just found out that a replacement ARC filter is 6,000 bucks! The new HKS filter is fine, I wanted a dry type filter to see if this would keep my turbo clean compared to the "wet" type K&N filter.