3.5 Accord beats Jazz 1.5 in fuel economy!

[Accord GTR]

Check out the results of this DOE test on local cars...

http://www.doe.gov.ph/news/PressReleases.asp?attach=446

I guess that variable engine displacement system of the Accord works very well!  This could be the best semi-luxury car you can get nowadays.  Amazing.

[z_lynx]

hahaha, sa lahat ng pagkakatiwala-an mo gobyerno pa.

[Accord GTR]

hahaha, sa lahat ng pagkakatiwala-an mo gobyerno pa.

So I assume you know their motive cuz I don't have a clue?  Please share your infinite wisdom with us.   

[z_lynx]

So I assume you know their motive cuz I don't have a clue?  Please share your infinite wisdom with us.   

its no secret naman all there test are in a controlled environment so fuel economy runs done by our beloved gov't are pointless. :thumbsup:,


Honda Accord 3.5 L Automatic Gasoline 17.82km/liter.

Honda Jazz 1.5 L Automatic Gasoline 17.54km/liter.

just wondering how much is honda phil paying DOE  for those figures, honda jazz is selling like hotcake with or without those figures, unlike accord which really needs a kick in the butt in terms of promotional ads in order to sell.

[niky]

Nobody paid nobody for nothing.

Those figures are all achievable, but the DOE run was done in the middle of the night, at a constant speed of around 60 km/h, in convoy.

The figure disparity merely reflects which cars were closer to their optimum cruising speed and which weren't. In fact, I'm surprised the CR-V only got 15.8... since 16 is possible with the 2.4 given the proper technique... the Jazz, on the other hand, can hit over 20 km/l given the proper cruising speed. The problem with the Jazz, as also reflected in the Jazz's poor EPA numbers, is that its cruising rpms at highway speeds are too high. But if you keep your speeds down to 50 km/h, it can do well over 25 km/l.

These figures aren't as informative as a good run in traffic would be. Doing a few rounds of Manila from SM MOA to Caloocan and back (three loops should be enough) would provide a more accurate measure of real-world economy.

Still, for the Accord to get that high an economy rating, given the amount of power on tap, is pretty good. But the driver must have been an ace at throttle control... to keep VCM on at constant cruising requires a very, very, veeeeeery light foot.

[falken205]

"This annual event gathers fuel consumption data based on actual driving conditions to give vehicle owners, buyers and the consuming public important information on the fuel efficiency of vehicle models and to..."

what a crap  :jokercolor: :thefinger:

[k.o]

it depends on what kind of ACTUAL DRIVING CONDITIONS are they saying hehe because on my altis 1.6 m/t the highest that i got i think was around 14km/l may baguio trip na yun so highway talaga pero on city streets, 10-11 is achievable but 17 is imposible on normal days

[Accord GTR]

its no secret naman all there test are in a controlled environment so fuel economy runs done by our beloved gov't are pointless. :thumbsup:,


Honda Accord 3.5 L Automatic Gasoline 17.82km/liter.

Honda Jazz 1.5 L Automatic Gasoline 17.54km/liter.

just wondering how much is honda phil paying DOE  for those figures, honda jazz is selling like hotcake with or without those figures, unlike accord which really needs a kick in the butt in terms of promotional ads in order to sell.

Hmm, what "controlled tests" are you talking about?  Who did those tests and where are they published?  What do they say about the Jazz and the Accord 3.5?  Is there a big difference in highway gas consumption between the 2 in those tests?

I could accept the possibility there's an accounting error here but I doubt your conspiracy theory cuz the Japanese are not like that to risk the reputation of their company by bribing a top gov't department to publish false public statements.  I can agree with you our gov't can do that but for Honda to pay them to do it???  That doesn't make sense at all.  Pwede pa with korean or Chinese car companies but a major Japanese company like Honda to do that?  Highly unlikely.

[El]

these fuel economy runs are meant to provide information to guide consumers for when they buy vehicles and not as a scientific experiment to show indisputable facts

also, most probably a honda accord customer, willing to pay 1million something, would really not pay attention or place as much importance to fuel efficiency as much as a honda jazz customer so its kinda pointless to rig these results in favor of the accord to boost sales.

[Accord GTR]

these fuel economy runs are meant to provide information to guide consumers for when they buy vehicles and not as a scientific experiment to show indisputable facts

also, most probably a honda accord customer, willing to pay 1million something, would really not pay attention or place as much importance to fuel efficiency as much as a honda jazz customer so its kinda pointless to rig these results in favor of the accord to boost sales.

I think the Accord 3.5 is closer to P2M na.  The Accord 2.4 is more than P1.6M. 

I agree its pointless to rig the results but I'm not so sure about Accord buyers "not paying attention to fuel efficiency" when making a buying decision.  Note the livery of Honda F1 these past 2 seasons...green.  This just says, Honda puts its money where their mouth is!  It's not just paying lip service to being "green".

I think a lot of people, whether they can afford luxury cars or not, are very conscious about fuel effciency  More so now than before when Mercedes benz started selling diesels a long time ago.  This is why I posted this thread cuz it is fantastic, if true, if Honda can sell a luxury car with 275hp and still sip gas like the Jazz.  That makes it very attractive to anyone in that market bracket.

Kudos to BMW also selling diesel powered cars that are very efficient.

More of the other manufacturers should follow this lead.

[z_lynx]

Hmm, what "controlled tests" are you talking about?  Who did those tests and where are they published?  What do they say about the Jazz and the Accord 3.5?  Is there a big difference in highway gas consumption between the 2 in those tests?

I could accept the possibility there's an accounting error here but I doubt your conspiracy theory cuz the Japanese are not like that to risk the reputation of their company by bribing a top gov't department to publish false public statements.  I can agree with you our gov't can do that but for Honda to pay them to do it???  That doesn't make sense at all.  Pwede pa with korean or Chinese car companies but a major Japanese company like Honda to do that?  Highly unlikely.

"controlled test"

"A total of 52 vehicle models participated in the fuel economy run which kicked off at the DOE office at 11:00 pm of October 23. The participating cars filled up their tanks with unleaded gas or diesel at the Shell Station inside The Fort, Taguig"

"From the DOE, the vehicles headed to Subic via EDSA, North Luzon Expressway, Subic-Clark-Tarlac Expressway and back to Fort Bonifacio. All vehicles ran at a maximum speed of 80 kph and were not allowed to overtake other entries."

try doing this test on edsa from 12pm to 7pm on a friday. lets see if a 3.5 liter accord can even get close to this numbers!!.

if " DOE" really wants to help consumers with there " fuel economy run" do it in a proper way, mag fuel eco-run sila sa oras at lugar kung saan majority of consumers would actually use this cars

as far as honda philippines bribing "DOE" its just a wild theory/accusation since ang pinakamalaking makikinabang ng eco-run nito is the accord, kasi since nung lumabas ung accord puro "VCM kaya matipid sa gas" nalang naririnig natin sa sales rep nila,
and its no secret naman that our majority of gov't officials/dep't hindi tatanggi sa grasya.

[Accord GTR]

"controlled test"

"A total of 52 vehicle models participated in the fuel economy run which kicked off at the DOE office at 11:00 pm of October 23. The participating cars filled up their tanks with unleaded gas or diesel at the Shell Station inside The Fort, Taguig"

"From the DOE, the vehicles headed to Subic via EDSA, North Luzon Expressway, Subic-Clark-Tarlac Expressway and back to Fort Bonifacio. All vehicles ran at a maximum speed of 80 kph and were not allowed to overtake other entries."

try doing this test on edsa from 12pm to 7pm on a friday. lets see if a 3.5 liter accord can even get close to this numbers!!.

if " DOE" really wants to help consumers with there " fuel economy run" do it in a proper way, mag fuel eco-run sila sa oras at lugar kung saan majority of consumers would actually use this cars

as far as honda philippines bribing "DOE" its just a wild theory/accusation since ang pinakamalaking makikinabang ng eco-run nito is the accord, kasi since nung lumabas ung accord puro "VCM kaya matipid sa gas" nalang naririnig natin sa sales rep nila,
and its no secret naman that our majority of gov't officials/dep't hindi tatanggi sa grasya.

I think El answered your statement earlier.

I thought you had another report that reputed this DOE report of the Accord.

Anyway, thanks for responding to my blog.  It was a good discussion.

[niky]

There's no reason to doubt that the Accord could actually do it. From personal experience with about half those cars in the test, the numbers seem right for a highway run.

But by no means is the test scientific... different drivers, different driving styles... different optimum cruising speeds... all of these factors mean that some cars were doing their maximum possible fuel economy, while others weren't.

It's not hype. It IS possible to get 30 km/l from a Honda Jazz. I've seen it personally (I've personally done over 20 km/l on the 1.5 in a private test-drive (V-Box verified) and my partners got over 20 km/l from the Yaris 1.5 AT on the NLEX) . And it IS possible to get 16-18 km/l out of a relatively big engine with the proper gearing. It's merely not something you could do every day.

Why would Honda need to bribe any government officials for anything? They hold their own eco-runs, with independent witnesses (on the last one, a few friends of mine brought a GPS box to verify the results)... they don't need to BS anybody.

It's just the testing regimen itself is BS. They should've given the individual drivers the instructions: "Just try to get the best economy you can..." That way, we would have seen way more cars breaching the 20 km/l mark, while the big cars would have still achieved the exact same economy they did in that test.

Again, the DOE tests were done with the best of intentions, but it's a methodology that's inherently flawed, as the long trip time and low traffic make the conditions rather too optimum to reflect real-world driving. Tessa Salazar's recent min-eco-run with a bunch of micro-cars was better, as they practiced driver-swapping, but they didn't drive those cars at the proper cruising speeds for economy, either, and their traffic section was so short that the fuel volume error at the pumps could have been bigger than the amount of gas they actually used.

[AM]

It's just the testing regimen itself is BS.

Do these eco-runs involve coasting and having the air conditioner switched off at all times?

They should have an eco-run with a route that passes through the areas with malls during this Christmas season. 

[z_lynx]

I think El answered your statement earlier.

I thought you had another report that reputed this DOE report of the Accord.

Anyway, thanks for responding to my blog.  It was a good discussion.

yes it was